The Asian Fetish – Part II
February 12, 2011 12 Comments
I was referred to an article by a fellow reader that pertained to the “Asian Fetish”. If you want to read the article, you can read it here. One of the lines that really struck me was how he described the fetish.
Typically, the issue arises when the assertive, independent Asian American woman (who is culturally not too different from her non-Asian peers) is expected to conform to the fantasy image of a mysterious, exotic and submissive Oriental female.
Although it does imply Asian Females, Moe’s article refers to both Asian Males and Asian Females. Really that’s exactly what makes it a turn off for both Asian Males and Females – the expectation of conformation to the fantasy. There is nothing wrong playfully once and awhile, but if we are almost demanded to do this every day, it makes Asian men uncomfortable.
The premise of the article describes five traits that are commonly found with non-Asians that have a strong preference for Asians. He uses these five traits to presumably describe five types of people (may also be combinations) that have “intense” attraction to Asians. I use intense, to emphasize why it is called a fetish. I will give a theorized paring to each of the five traits. In a sense, I’ll use HSLA + TCAI to explain this a bit more. Dyn Moe’s traits are as follows:
Sensitive nature or fragile ego
This is very much related to WMAF more than AMWF. If your society shunned you, but halfway across the world there are people worshiping your presence, you would definitely want to go there.
My theorized pairing: Humanitarian + Technophile. These are both good-natured, but quiet people. Someone very brash and outspoken is definitely not a turn on for this Humanitarian – thus she needs to relate to someone quiet and caring.
Know-it-all attitude
This also applies more to WMAF, but can to AMWF. In regards to the White Female, this is choosing a male who will submit and worship her. He will recognize that she has knowledge in Western Culture, and will appreciate everything she has to offer.
Lioness + Technophile would best represent this kind of pairing.
Verbally competitive
Actually when I think about this one, this is closely related to know it all attitude, but slightly different. While the know-it-all attitude wishes the Asian man to submit, being verbally competitive forces her Asian man into submission. This is more of a cultural thing as Dyn Moe describes how Asians try to diffuse conflict. By agreeing, the Asian male wants to maintain peace, despite the fact that he disagrees with her.
Socialite/Lioness + Technophile (starting to see a pattern?) – These two outgoing types tend to do the most talking.
Uncommon selfishness
In many cases, it is a great pride for Asian males to provide financially for their female interest. Having a “me first” attitude requires someone who will attend to those needs. It’s to nobody’s surprise that being with someone who wants to play second fiddle will take that role. In Moe’s article he usually refers this to the WMAF as in the male being so self-centered. This is almost a scary signal to an abusive relationship. It doesn’t have to be physically abusive, but emotionally, mentally, financially, or spiritually abusive.
Socialite/Lioness + Technophile (surprise!)
Tendency to externalize problems
This is one who blames society for their problems – for being such a misfit. This is not necessarily a bad trait, nevertheless is one stated by Moe. The problem is when the White Female idealizes Asian Men to be easily “Accepted and honoured” but as Moe suggests “forgets that people anywhere in the world do not like people who are mean, selfish, or arrogant.”
Advocate/Lioness + Technophile
The Asian Fetish
We have to remember this is the Asian Fetish and characteristics of people who possess the Asian Fetish. The fundamental reason for calling it an Asian Fetish is because the preferences arise from the “Fantasy” of how Asian Men are much less abrasive than their non-Asian counterparts – and possibly will spoil their women. The reason why I used the Technophile archetype for every “theoretical example” is because they are considered to be the prototypical Asian Male. Of course we know that there are still three other types of Asian men who have been left out – only to never be considered.
Dyn Moe really only describes the Asian Fetish for the White Female seeking the “Fantasy” gentle, quiet, and introverted Asian male – but he leaves out the Comedian, Ambitious, and Individual archetypes. To tell you the truth, these three types are the ones with the White Fetish. Technophiles may not even know they are interested in White Females, and definitely will rarely make the first move to show interest. For the other three, they really do have interest in White Females -–and are not afraid to express it one way or another.
I would almost go as far to say even I have a White Fetish. There are countless times in my life I have been shunned and rejected by Asian Females – and usually immediately. It felt like they shut the door on me. As a result I tend to relate to Caucasian women more and more.
Fetishes are not necessarily a bad thing, but we have to distinguish between Fantasy and Reality. We don’t mind speaking phrases to you in our Asian languages, but we don’t want you to make us someone we are not. We certainly will love and care for you, but people remember we are human too. What I mean by this is the woman who demands her Asian man to wear some Asian costume to bed every night sends a clear message: RUN.
AMWF Love 
Again great article :)Although I was finding it more intressting in that Dyn was suggesting that this extents even in to friendships between Asians and nonAsians.It does make u think if one have certain traits of this :)I think its great u point out now more exactly what u guys dont like about the fantasy part.But dont u think Brian that this goes the other way around as well and u guys have expectation of us that falls under the fantasy.U guys often mention how u hate when a western woman is trying to make her self more Asian and act Asian.Whats to say that is an act,it could in fact be that this is something that suits her.Or more likely its something u presive as Asian trait but in fact she is just beeing her self.I think if u do have this Asian vs NonAsian its not possible then not to judge and put people in the boxes.For example, u stronger we are claiming that Asian women are submissive,the more are we claiming that nonAsian then are not.Of course same with everything else we are claiming.The only way really is to dare to be honest and admit to your partner u have fetish and then have discussion about it.I have only been able to be brave and say that to my adopted boyfriend but thats because in his case the fetish is only based on the looks.When its connected with cultural things and the guy Im dateing is actually from Asia, I wouldnt be so comfortable saying that in fear of beeing labeled as ignorant and of course rejected.
Thanks for commeting Alex.
Yes you could say the fetish almost extends to just friends in general – but it usually much more tolerated than anything. For the most part I remember having the token 6’2 White Guy in the group of Asian friends. We actually had no problem with him at all. He was smart, athletic, and very respectful. There was no expectation of him integrating with us, just he chose to be around us, and we accepted that.
Usually when it came to the White Female with the Asian Fetish, it was the really quiet girls who were in the school “Anime Club”. Perhaps times have changed, but that’s what I remembered growing up.
I think the key word is not to use Fetish at all. There’s some negative thoughts and feelings behind that word, so it may be better of saying you find Asian Men attractive.That way it says more like you are open to meeting an Asian guy, rather than you love Asian guys because you have a perceived fantasy of them. It is a subtle but important difference.
I definately find White Females very attractive physically, intellectually, and emotionally. Of course that’s not to say I love every single White Female that passes by, I just have this natural tendency to prefer White Females.
– Brian
What about Asian men with a tendency for white women do we have a term to describe this? Anyway I don’t really like the term Asian fetish because it creates negativity towards mixed relationships. Like if a white man marries a Asian woman and has an “Asian fetish” but he loves that woman and cares about her is it really so bad? I think people can grow out of this fetish thing
Well Sarah, I actually never thought of that. In mose cases we use food to desribe things. We have usually three items:
Egg – White on outside, yellow on inside (Asian Fetish commonly found here)
Banana – Yellow outside, white inside (White Fetish commonly found here too)
Mango – Yellow outside, yellow inside.
The ones with tendicies for White Women, well Western Culture more than their own Asian Culture would be labelled as Banana. Actually I’d label myself as a Banana.
I think the negativity is just an initial reaction to the relationship because outsiders can only see the relationship, and not fully comprehend what the relationship is really about. If you really want to defend the relationship, then you can justify it because of love and shared values – he just so happened to be Asian. There will always be negative critics. Perhaps they have had bad experiences before, but they are free to think that way. I too dislike the word Fetish – but to make things clear, Asians don’t have a problem with White Females falling in love with Asian Culture. The real problem is that they feel uncomfortable about it when it comes to actual dating or courtship. Expressing interest in Asian Culture is one thing, but trying to live a perceived Fantasy is another.
No we will not build you a railroad and rickshaw you around town. (I don’t think any Asian guy would. ^_^v) If you love Chinese culture merely because of the yummy ginger beef and chicken balls we would be scared too. Of course I’m just being a bit satirical here, making it over the top stupid that it’s actually humourous. Honestly just tell him that you find Asian guys attractive (of course let him know you’re attracted to him of course) and that’s more than plenty. You don’t have to justify why you feel that way – just open the door, and invite him in.
– Brian
I think that there should be a more clear definition on things.I dont get why people who are intressted in Asian culture and want a husband based on that culture fall under categori fetish.They should fall under diffrent category.Im not from english speaking country but fetish is if u have ideas that are more directed sexually.Thats what we mean with the fetish in other countries,like the shoe fetish.When I say I have Asian fetish I mean that the fantasy is that because of culture things there are gonna be some hot stuff in the bedroom.Other people seem to have more fantasy containing because he is Asian he is gonna be this kind of husband.Then if we have two diffrent definitions it would be much easier and nobody gets offended 🙂 well in a perfect world any way.
Fetish has multiple definitions. In most cases we typically associate Fetish with sexual overtones. Honestly, the Asian Fetish in a sexual way would probably be applied to White Male Asian Female relationships rather than AMWF. The mysterious exoticness of an Asian woman may sound pleasing to men, but that’s also just another fantasy.
It really comes down to what you really want in a relationship. Hot and heavy passion often tapers after a few years, and if there’s no solid fundamentals for love, people will look elsewhere to fufill those desires. What is important is that the majority of Asian culture is based on shame. We tend to not openly speak about sexual topics because of the potential shame from others knowing. This is not to say that Asian men have no desire at all, they just feel that the repercussions of others knowing their inner cravings would be rather embaressing.
The toughest part is that Asians don’t really have an open channel to speak about those taboo topics. Thus we are left to our own to find out. I am still unsure if there is sexual education in Asian curriculums.
In the end, Alex, there should be no need to be fearful with the Asian Fetish. Nobody has the right to stop you from being attracted to Asian men – and I don’t call that a Fetish at all.
– Brian
Well I dont know about sexual education in Asia either but I dont think thats gonna help.Asians in west are getting it and that doesnt make any diffrents.The reason Im bringing it up is that when I think of it this whole subject as much as it is intresting its also frustrating.I kind of really wish and hopeing as well that the guys reading this get that there is women out there who are intressted in Asian men simply because they are hot.I find it annoying when the talk everywhere always seem to be focused in terms of a serious relationship.Its not that I want a shallow relationship,its that it kind of sends a message that when a white women is intrested in a Asian man most likely she is in to Asian culture as well,she is also most likely to expect u to look at the familiy seriuosly,she is hopeing that u are the responsable asian and so on.The message when a white men likes a asian women is quite simple,he finds them hot and everything around that has to do only with shallow intrest.Why am I mad about that.Well because that means that Asian women go around and know that they are attractive to white men.White men dont have to what so ever have any kind of intresst in Asian culture,so when they are in a bar they can just simply meet.Now when it comes to the other way around it the complete opossite.The asian men dont go around thinking they are hot to us and for me then to sends some signals I better then fake my intresst in Asian culture because thats what seems to be told to Asian guys all the time.That a women who is in to Asian culture well then she must be in to Asian men as well.So if I want to meet an Asian guy in a bar I better have a manga comic so that I acceidently can drop that in front of him and maybe just maybe he will get it.And of course Im not talking about just meeting for sexual pleasure but decent white men benefit also from Asian fetish because all they have to do is to show they are not jerks.Sooo not fair,in next life Im gonna wish to be a white man 🙂
That’s correct. There is a double standard for White Females.
It’s like having to jump through so many hoops when the White Males can just take the direct route and suddenly he has an Asian Girlfriend. You have to remember there are more than one type of Asian Male in this world. I have done by best to separate them into four distict types on a mental/emotional level. The one who gets bad rapport with Western society is usually the Technophile. These are usually the ones who would probably show some interest in manga or electronics in general.
You will be able to spot the outgoing vibrant Comedian easily as he like to surround himself with people. He is very approachable, yet sometimes shallow. What I mean by that because he likes people, he tends to like everyone too. The signals sent may not be uniquely for one person, but he just does that for everyone. Ambitious are similar except they feed off of people who idolize them rather than love them like Comedians. They emit an aura which shows some strength/presence, and it usually plays a significant factor in attraction. Individuals almost look like as if they don’t care, probably because a relationship only based the physicality of it all, gets boring very quickly. In most cases they are very rare.
The nightlife scene tends to attract the Ambitious and Comedian types. Of course there is the odd Technophile seeking refuge at the table. Only until recently, Asian men were depicted as unattractive in Western Culture. Times are changing, but they still need the push to actually do something to speak up about what they want. Otherwise the poor White Female is left waiting for something that never happens. The other alternative is that you take action and approach him.
I agree with you how frustrating it is for White Females to be faced with a double standard. As long as you know which type of Asian male you want from TCAI, you can align your lifestyle make things happen. Perhaps next time I will be a White Female in my next life just to see how it is. 🙂 Nobody said it was easy.
– Brian
Yes I have read your advice.I think I have done pretty much that.I should be millionair if i got a penny for everytime I have said, oh I want to learn Korean.Tokyio seems like fun place to visit.I think TOP is hot guy bla bla bla.The thing is that I dont need to aporoach guys what so ever.Yesterday a guy pulled over from the road to give me his number.So its not that Im exactly unattractive lady.Further more I dont have that much expirience in approaching guys but yet I have made the extra efford when I have seen a intressting Asian man.Must women in west dont have to do approaching and also u are told in west that if u are too on u are gonna be presived as desperate or even worse the guy will just think that he can play with u whenever he wants.I mean the whole dateing game goes out in the point where a women is supose to play hard to get.What also for me complicates stuff that if u do chose to be to on and go agains all this anxiety u are feeling and trust me u will have anxiety thinking if u have been to on.Then u can still not be sure if he is intressted in you because Asian guys and specially if they are from Asia are so damn polite and nice to you because of this obligation crap they are probably feeling.And u end up thinking is he in to me or he is just beeing nice.Witch makes u feel insecure and of course more anxiety comes with it.Im sorry,Im makeing u in to a women advice columst now :)It is not my intention and u do give good points but Im sure most women have tried everything.It just seems to me I have to have Asian intrests, stalk Asian girls that can intuduce me to they Asian friends,join a club or something so I can meet the guy and then be his friend and yeah u get the route.Now there is nothing wrong with it,its just that I do have other intressts and I do date based on personallity so Im not dateing exclusivly Asians.Im not gonna hang around in China town hopeing a Asian guy will notice me.Im just hopeing that when I take a sit somewere in a restaurang or a park,I can only smile at the Asian guy across me and 10 minutes later have a number.It works with other guys of other races exept for Asians.So it is annoying really.
It must be both a blessing and a curse to be gifted with beauty. In a biological sense, men find you extremely attractive because your physical traits would improve their progeny. Being very attractive makes everyone attracted to you, including the creeps and ill-mannered.
You have to understand that not all Asian Males are shy. There are definately the gutsy outgoing types because I have some colleagues like that. So if an Asian male approached you the same way that a White Guy would approach you, would you accept his offer? That’s up to you to decide. Whatever standard you set will determine the amount of qualified individuals. I suppose that’s an indirect way to put it.
Anyways in reference to the Asian guys, they are nice because we are taught to be nice as Asians. Come to think of it, when it comes to relationships with typical Asians, it’s kind of dumb. Friends and family play a huge influence over their choices. Sometimes they need a little convincing, or a little push. Ever watch Korean Drama? How long does it take for the guy to get the girl?
Also don’t worry about the women’s advice columnist, I don’t mind it. I appreciate it when people are here to voice their opinions. When I get to hear from others it makes me happy that people read what Laura and I write about. Don’t give up on Asian Men! You may have to be patient, but I’m sure you know what you want. 🙂
– Brian
Well ok Brian I wasnt highlighting that I am pretty.It was more that I was trying to highlight that there isnt anything wrong with my looks and that guys really put an efford part from Asians.Any way I dont know about Koreans drama I have seen them but the thing that I find inresting is the moral that seem to be baked in there.Almost like katolik church would have desided to go in to tv buisness.When u say about the guy having to go thru all that to get the girl,well its hard for me as an outsider to distingwish whats real and whats dramatic.In one drama the girl made a scene while drunk and acted jelause.The guy ended up running after her and then appolagiesed by saying I shouldnt have put you in that situation.And this was his ex co-worker and work related.I still dont know what siuation he referd to plus that the poor guy had to work the whole day and then run after her and she should be the one appologasing if we go by logic.Then of course u think OMG,this is so girly dramatic or Im missing something cultural.But everytime I do want to ask about whats moral and if Koreans really live like this,I end up meeting Koreans from Korea and of course because of the launguge they missunderstand me and think am asking if its real based.So all I get is not real not real :)But Im of course intrested more in to interpersonal relationship and moral they are trying to inpose on people by this type of drama.I supose its typicly womenly of me to be intressted in that aspect of Asian culture.Also its the same that for me there is a lack of Asian friends,part from my gay indonesian friend :),that I really can talk to regarding anything deep,or deep is maybe not the right world but if I ask something about Asia it basicly just gets answared but they will not try to understand why I asked to tell more about it.I think thats why I keep commenting on your blogs, u probably apreasate it but I bet people are sick of seeing my name on blog comment :)Any way Im looking forward on your article on Asian guys supresive anger.Thats something I expierienced with a Western Asian and our relationship didnt go that far partly because of it.
There’s nothing wrong with you sharing your thoughts and feelings. It’s nice to actually have an outlet of some sort. That’s quite healthy to do so.
You see Asians really aren’t that mysterious as they are thought out to be. We are all creatures of habit, and really the truth to our identity and culture is really the mentality behind it. You could say it is the principles which Asians value. Hard work, humility, and family are elements of the principles. I’ll have to write some article on that later. When you understand the key historical moments in Asia, you will see that these concepts still remain – among these I have mentioned Confucius and Imperial Examinations. Of course there are more, but those are quite prevalent in modern Asian society.
The deep emotional connection or talking is fairly difficult in AMWF relationships. Beyond the language barriers, Asian Men have great difficulty expressing their feelings. We do not have caring parents that will openly train us to express what we feel. Our training is strongly in mathematics and sciences with rote memorization – not social sciences.
Supressive anger can also be thought of as passive-agressive behaviour, which I am currently writing on. In brief, it is very common for Asian men both from Asia and North America to have this trait. The problem is that we have no outlet like Westerners, so it becomes suppressed and unleashed when the anger becomes unmanagable. Anger is one of the emotions Asian are fully capable of expressing. It is most prevalent in countries that require a certain national pride, so they can have military officers to protect the nation.
I hope that will suffice for you now, Alex.
– Brian