AMWF Love Asks You: Why Aren’t There More AMWF Relationships?
May 19, 2011 74 Comments
So you’re a man from Asia, or maybe you’re an Asian American / Canadian male and you like white women. I know your guys exist, but it always seems funny to me that so few of you actually are in an AMWF as compared to the WMAF. Honestly, I am always careful when I look at data because things like sample size and the type of analysis that was done always make a difference. Although, regardless of what’s out there in the media, I always wanted to know what Asian men really think about the AMWF relationship.
I have heard all the possible stereotypes about white women from Asian guys, but none get my attention the most as men thinking that white women don’t like Asian guys. Now to be honest, I am sure there are some who don’t, and that’s ok, but there are many who do, which is fantastic. So as a man, why would you assume that some lovely lady would not be interested in you simply because you are Asian. Silly right? Yeah that’s what I thought too, so what else could it be? Maybe your English or foreign language skills need some improvement and you feel you can’t express yourself well? Maybe your parents would disapprove? Maybe you think it will be easy to date and marry an Asian girl instead? Maybe you never thought you had the option? Guys….You have the answers, and I want to know your thoughts!!
AMWF Love 
I though that maybe it’s a cultural thing. Here in America I feel that Asian males are just more likely to marry white women as compared to men in Asia… well because its all around them and they do not really see it as an issue. But honestly most of the Asian male dating population can be found in Asia for us girls.. so unless women head on over to Asia, or men from Asia come west, it makes it hard to meet someone… even if the country you live in has an Asian population.
-laura
Most Asians in the US grow up in ethnic enclaves on the coasts. The ones in the middle of the country grow up surrounded by whites or are adopted themselves. These people have little trouble adjusting.
For someone like me who lives on the coast, it’s just *easier* to date an Asian girl. There’s a better chance of being accepted. There’s no awkwardness in communication. No more wondering whether she’s interested or if I’m too forward/not forward enough. More shared values and humour. Parents (on both sides) are more likely to approve.
Sure, there have been a few white women that I’ve been interested in in the past, but after a series of continued rejections, I’ve stopped bothering.
Nobody said interracial dating was easy, even I deal with rejection quite often. 🙂 Even after my experiences with both Asian and White Females, I still prefer White Females. To tell you the truth some of my experiences with Asian Females have been rather traumatizing. Of course I didn’t know any better back then, but they were harsh life lessons I had to learn
While this may not be for everyone to be in an AMWF relationship, it is definately not impossible either. Laura and I draw upon our personal experiences and insights and share it in our blog. Our job at AMWF Love is to help bring forward the cultural, social, and emotional issues that comes with this pairing. Slowly by surely we are expanding our reach across the world.
– Brian
Hi there, Laura and Brian, it’s my pleasure to meet you two. I have done a lot of research on AMWF , so let me try to say something here. I would love to share my experience too. (most AMWF occurs in the USA, Canada, and Europe, in which cases, it’s way much easier in general, compared to lonely man like me 🙂 staying in Hong Kong.
Let me answer your questions before telling you about myself.
– Why is it hard to see AMWF in Asia countires?
The number of WF in HK is way less than those in the US. I was lucky though to work in a western company, located in the very westernized area of HK. For those other Asian man, it’s very natural that no WF exists in their social circle. If you cannot “see” more WF, how would you even develop an interest? It’s like you never thought something could be good until you really try it…. You need a moment to spark your mind “oh well, actually WF are beautiful?, something like that”
– Now, even if your social circle has some WF, then the next problem is…. Mobility.
Honestly, when it comes to AMWF, normally it’s those who are late teen to early adult. (18 – 30), in general, the older the Asian man is, less likely will they accept AMWF. Is it possible to find WF in this age range for the Asian man? I am sorry, it’s relatively hard. Most of the WF coming to HK are somewhere above 30, either they have married or come with their boyfriends! For those WF who are still single, they normally have a good job with good salary. They live in a very westernized area of Hong Kong. I am not saying money is everything, but it’s just hard to start…
Another major problem is, the WF come and go. They work in HK for 1 year or less, then they will leave, so normally they are not opened for relationships.
– Ok, there is still hope All secondary schools here in HK have at least one native English teacher. Right? We can only bet on them. They are normally in their early 20s. However, most of them just hang around in the Expat bars in Hong Kong, again with a lot of foreign people. They said they love the Chinese culture, but whether they like to date HK Boys is another story.
Finally, the last obstacle is that, if the WF is young, has no boyfriend, and they will be staying in HK for long, but then they are in high demand because not every western man love Asian girls, so these WM will try to pick up these young WF.
See? I havn’t even mentioned about other factors like if Asian man are too shy, not able to communicate well, etc etc. It is against this backdrop that why it is hard to see AMWF here in HK.
– In the US/Canada, you are surrounded by WF, it’s so easy to talk to them, the open culture helps too. I remember when I was travelling in Canada, I saw a pretty WF, I saw her drinking water, I predicted that if the bus is going to stop suddnely, she will be in trouble with the water splitting. Well, the bus did stop suddnely and I hang her a tissue instantly, she said thanks and then we start talking about everything. It’s so easy.
So in genearl, it’s the cultural thing and the number of WF girls we can see here in HK. (Those WF in HK, they are not really into Chinese culture, they just enjoy the better allowance, salary, and at the same time, living in the very westernized part of HK)
Oh not to mention that I lost few local friends because they find me crazy, when i told them that I like WF, they have too many negative thinking towards AMWF, they always turn me down! They said to me that no WF will think we Asian guys are attractive! I told them “Hey, maybe the WM are taller, bigger and more handsome, but hey! I am not the ugliest, I am not the shortest, I believe NOT every single western man are better than me!, so go for it!” Then when I finally date a WF later, all my friends were like, “Oh my god! You are my hero!!! How did you do that?”
::::: Ok, so what about me? I have dated an American girl for a very short period (It didn’t work out because of religion stuff), and now I am dating another WF from the UK. I am a complete local here in HK, so how did I make it? ( In all honesty, I am not trying to show off, instead I just want to share my experiences so, we can see more AMWF all over the world!) I hope I can gather those Asian man who love WF here in HK, and setup a group!
– When I was young, whenever I saw those WF in movies, I had something, even though I had no idea about love at that time, but I thought they are beautiful….. This has not been changed even when I grow up, at the age of 21, I had a visit to the UK, then I saw a lot of pretty WFs there, but still I never had the idea of “it’s okay to date them”, but then!!! I saw few AMWF examples in the UK during my visit, that has CHANGED MY LIFE! I started to realise that it’s possible, at least there are few examples in the UK. Hence when I came back to HK, I started to talk to few white female workmates, and i have done the following in 1 year…
– Go to lots of meetup events, from wine tasting to any social events that are full of western people.
– Talk to them, learn to be confident to talk in English
– The more I talk to them, I start to get used to the way they talk, joke, etc. The more you know about this World, you have more topics to talk with people.
– Watch how the WM talks to WF in the bar.
– Watch a lot of USA. UK shows, check what kind of things WM do to get their girls, what topics do they normall talk about…
– (I was not only focusing just on the flirting side, I tried to understand their sense of humor, their cultural things)
– Practise and Practise…
– Reading your blog (and Jocelyn’s speaking of china) always give me the courage to keep trying, though I might be desperate sometimes after a rejection. Gald that you guys write these things on the Internet, so that I know at least there are WF who love Asian guy 🙂
That’s me, I am glad that I have done all these and improve myself. Oh god, there are too much things I would love to share, maybe next time. Thanks for the patient in readin my comment.
Thanks HKGuy,
Great to know that you’re still pursuing the AMWF relationship. Let us know how everything turns out! I’ll be sure to write more blog posts. 🙂
– Brian
Definitely easier for an Asian guy to date an Asian girl, especially if they speak the same Asian language.
Say for example, I see an attractive Asian girl in a public venue, it would be alot easier to go up to her and just make small talk, even if it was the first time I’ve ever seen her. I tried this with American women, it’s just weird, even just as simple as saying hello, I get this look as if I’m from outer space. It’s easier with American women if I know them over a period of time, and they are comfortable with me socially.
I get the outer space ignorance too…
Glad to know I’m not the only one… 🙂
“AMWF Love Asks You: Why Aren’t There More AMWF Relationships?”
One more note that just re-registered, for whatever reason, as has been told to me in the past, white people do not think that it is O.K. for an Asian male to compete with a White male for companionship from White female.
On the other hand however, it is perfectly O.K. for a White male to compete with an Asian male for companionship from an Asian female. GO FIGURE……
There is a story from my college days that just came to mind. There was a White girl that I was trying to get to know(trying to pursue), but we never actually went out on a date, reason was she had a black boyfriend.
I was willing to overlook that but nothing ever materialized, she actually thought of me as nothing more than a second class citizen(fresh off the boat and the sort). One day this black dude, guy, scumbag showed a bunch of guys a video clip of his white girlfriend performing fellatio on him. This video clip was basically shared across the campus network. I’m thinking to my self, poor girl.
If you tried to pursue a girl knowing that she already had a boyfriend, it would be expected that the girl would treat you the way she did.
In response to Ethan
“If you tried to pursue a girl knowing that she already had a boyfriend, it would be expected that the girl would treat you the way she did.”
—->You’re still young, you’ll understand one day
Nothing about relationships is definite, my friend, not even marriage.
The marriage vows are to “Cherish in good times as in bad” yet there is always one partner that considers bailing at the first sign of trouble.
The reason I pursued was because I knew that I would have been a boyfriend of better quality, she definitely deserved better than what happened.
The reason I didn’t pursue her after what happened was that she was desperate at that point.
Desperate women are basically psycho’s
Hi cheung3fung ,
In fact, I am feeling completely the other way round when it comes to talking to strangers. For instance, say if you are in the public transport, if you open up a conversation with a Chinese female, she might guard herself up, and just wants to finish the conversation with you asap. However, if it’s an European, American female, it’s so much easier, the difference in culture actually helps to build the interest between me and her to start a conversation.
Overall, I found it easier to talk to WF as a stranger compared to AF, a lot of my friends told me that it’s very natural to talk to someone in Canada/USA on the street, but not the case in Hong Kong.
And regarding to whether We are a second class citizen, maybe that’s true in the USA, but at least not so true in Hong Kong! However, we have to remember that, not every single WF are like that, I have met enough, but limited in WF to say that, most of them would not look down on us, it really depends on how we present ourselves. Oh and I think these days it’s getter better?
You are right, I’m from USA, specifically New York
“most of them would not look down on us”
—>Yes they do, I’m telling you from personal experience
” However, if it’s an European, American female, it’s so much easier, the difference in culture actually helps to build the interest between me and her to start a conversation.”
—>Bro, what are you smoking(no offense), you’re actually trying to tell me that a Chinese girl treats a Chinese guy worse than a White girl, maybe in certain isolated incidents, but this doesn’t usually happen here in U.S. . I am 33 years old, lived in U.S. all my life, and have never seen this. Put it this way,
for every snobby Chinese girl(and they are rare) you name, I can give you, 20 maybe even 30 snobby white girls, and you can take that to the bank.
“Oh and I think these days it’s getter better”
When we’re at the bottom of the dating chain, the only way is up 🙂
Hi cheung3fung,
I am sorry to hear that you think “most of them would Look down on us” according to your personal experience, I am certainly not the right person to judge as I have never been to the USA. However, according to my experience here in HK, yes, few of the white girls might look down on us Asian, but at least not all of them. (There was one who looked down a bit on Chinese, but I have shown him that’s not true and we dated few times) For those who actually look down on us, then they are not worthy for us to date.
I never said that a chinese girl treats a chinese guy worse than a white girl. I was trying to say that people in general like something new and exotic, so maybe we can use it as an advantage to approach the white girls. That’s all I want to say and share, beyond doubt, we can never generalise anything.
I am sorry for your personal experience, after all, we both just want to promote a better AMWF message across the World. Hence the existence of this blog and all the great articles from Laura and Brian.
I suppose I’ll fix that typo regarding my name.
– Brian
In response to HKGuy
“I am sorry for your personal experience, after all, we both just want to promote a better AMWF message across the World. Hence the existence of this blog and all the great articles from Laura and Brian.”
—-> Thanks, this is a very noble task indeed.
Maybe you can come to N.Y.C on your next vacation and try your hand at the nightlife…
“For those who actually look down on us, then they are not worthy for us to date.”
—->It’s funny you mentioned that, it’s these WF that attract me the most. I’m not trying to be a pushover when it comes to relationahips, I like to go after what I cannot have, it gives me motivation.
typo ” but I have shown her, not him 🙂
I think some guys are just insecure/awkward or expect to find someone who is way out of their league.
I’ve found that among the strangers that I’ve come across, young white women are generally more open and friendly compared to young Asian women. This, of course, doesn’t really have anything to do with who is nicer than who, but is more of a cultural issue, as Asians are less expressive with their emotions.
I’ve also been smiled at by white women more often than by Asian women, but this is probably because there are numerically more white women than Asian women in Canada, and also because of cultural differences. Just like I’m sure many Asian women have been complimented by white men more than by Asian men.
Sure, some strangers have looked down on me, but the most humiliating look I’ve ever received from a stranger in my entire life was actually from an Asian woman. I’m not one who likes to analyze and pre-conceive what others might be thinking especially since I can’t read minds, but that was definitely a humiliating experience. It’s not hard to distinguish between a hate stare from a curious stare.
Anyways, you move on with life.
In response to Ethan
“I think some guys are just insecure/awkward or expect to find someone who is way out of their league.”
—>I firmly believe that anything which doesn’t kill me, makes me stronger, I basically live by this code and guys from other minorities do this all the time…
“Sure, some strangers have looked down on me, but the most humiliating look I’ve ever received from a stranger in my entire life was actually from an Asian woman.”
—->These are some of my bad experiences with WF…
1) I went up to a girl at a bar and said “Hello, how are you?”
She turns to her friends and said “What a loser” they all looked at me with a mocking grin
2) I tried to talk to another WF at a gym, basically got blown off, she went to chat with someone else
who was clearly a player.
These are only two bad encounters, I had other encounters that were worse.
I don’t mean to depress the good intentions of people who put up this board, just trying to put reality into perspective.
And no, I’m still not deterred in trying to pursue white women.
We must understand for the most part populations regardless of ethnic origins do not have an obligation to openly respond to strangers. Everyone has a certain mechanism of social defense and a myriad of filters that categorize social affinities.
As much as I’d love having a female completely understand me culturally and socially, I am simply not attracted to Asian Females. This is not to say that I never tried dating Asian Females, but all of them ended up disasterous. Both the shy and outgoing Asian females of my past were equally controlling and manipulative. It became apparent to them that I was not what they wanted because of my individualistic nature was overpowering their controlling tendencies.
Dating white females has been extremely satsifying on the emotional and intellectual level, but there are very few who are open to dating interracially even here in Canada. Personally the ones I look for have a generous caring attitude free of materialistic tendencies. They are rare, so I don’t pass up on opportunities to meet them when the chance arises.
If I could summarize what it is dating Asian Females (for an Asian Male) I would say it like this: “Dating an Asian Female is like eating tofu for the rest of your life. It keeps you alive, but you never really feel fufilled.”
While the path is far more difficult for AMWF, it is very rewarding.
– Brian
In response to Brian
“We must understand for the most part populations regardless of ethnic origins do not have an obligation to openly respond to strangers”
—>You’d be surprised at how openly WF respond to Black guys and Hispanic guys here in U.S.A
“there are very few who are open to dating interracially even here in Canada.”
—->Same response as above, for whatever reason Asian guys don’t get the same consideration
For some reason, Asians seem to be a minority within the minority population, Asians have to work twice as hard, have more education, just to earn the same wages Whites, Blacks and Hispanics earn.
“As much as I’d love having a female completely understand me culturally and socially, I am simply not attracted to Asian Females.”
—->Be careful what you wish for…you will marry a White woman one day and out of nowhere an Asian woman
will appear, she will be gorgeous, show an interest in you, make you rethink why you married a White woman and the kicker—–>(SHE IS A VIRGIN!!) I’ve seen this happen in real life.
—->In all fairness, this is also true of White women who marry Asian men, there always will be White men that appear out of nowhere that make her wonder why she married an Asian man.
“If I could summarize what it is dating Asian Females (for an Asian Male) I would say it like this: “Dating an Asian Female is like eating tofu for the rest of your life. It keeps you alive, but you never really feel fufilled.”
—->Did you know that Asian women age with beauty? While it may seem from the outset that White women have better bodies, do you know what those chests and hips look like at 60 years old? If you are
willing to see past this, then by all means….
I’m not trying to be against AMWW relationships, just trying to set the reality straight.
Any relationship is can work as long as both parties want it to.
I also want to understand a certain double standard.
I hear stories of how Black and Hispanic guys mistreating White women all the time.
Some examples are O.J. Simpson, Kobe Bryant, most basketball and football players.
Alot of these people basically use White women for sex and are unheard from again.
But White women don’t think that their entire culture consists of bad people.
If say a Chinese guy did this to a White woman, the entire Chinese male population would be basically crucified. I don’t understand this.
Wow, these examples are a bit discouraging to me finally. It’s like sometimes I found lots of great AMWF examples, and suddenly I also see some bad AMWF experiences from other people.
Either way, I will have to try this out by myself. I am the type of person that I would rather try and have no regret. I just started my AMWF journey….. It’s quite exotic and fun by the way.
I would love to visit Europe and USA to check it out….
Again, in all honesty, if there were successful examples, then hope remains..
There are many successful examples and I still see AMWF Couples here in Canada when I stroll large public places like shopping centres. Granted it is considerably less than WMAF, there are still success stories. (AMWF Families with half-Asian children)
– Brian
“There are many successful examples and I still see AMWF Couples here in Canada”
—> Actually I was very close to visiting Canada a couple of times, I drive on I-81 alot, I was acctually
at Customs on Christmas eve 2010 but got sent back because I didn’t have a passport.
“I am the type of person that I would rather try and have no regret”
—->Good Spirit….
@cheng3fung
seems to me you have no game at all with women. go learn some attraction skill before you go into sets and blame the set for looking down on you when its your approach that needs to be worked on. like seriously, hello how are you? are you kidding me? that shows both neediness and that you are blatantly going to be hitting on them. if you are going to do that, might as well go with a straight out complement to show you are CONFIDENT and competent. instead you go with bs small talk that gets you NO WHERE.
“seems to me you have no game at all with women. go learn some attraction skill before you go into sets and blame the set for looking down on you when its your approach that needs to be worked on. like seriously, hello how are you? are you kidding me? that shows both neediness and that you are blatantly going to be hitting on them.”
—->Am I trying to hit on you?:-), as for “game with women” I’m past this, actually, I personally don’t like playing games. I’m more into meaningful relationships, one that acutally lasts.
—->Correct me if I’m wrong, “game with women” implies meeting women for the sole purpose of sex, at least that’s the way I’ve understood it all along. While I actually do desire sex, it’s not my sole purpose,
I actually want to get to know the particular girl, allt her good traits, habits, BAD traits,habits before…..
“that shows both neediness and that you are blatantly going to be hitting on them”
—>Well, you’re right, I do have a need for their companionship and yes, I am hitting on them. Why should I try to hide that?
“instead you go with bs small talk that gets you NO WHERE.”
—> That’s how I know that I haven’t met the right one YET
Before this gets carried out of hand, I want to make it clear that everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Cheung3fung may have had some bad experiences in the past that has shaped his present day viewpoint. He is entitled to his own opinion, and he alone will face his own consequences for his choices.
While I do not preach game, I still believe it is important to have confidence and competency as a person. Whether you chose to utilize game or not is completely your own decision. AMWF Love is about bringing forward the emotional, cultural, and social issues of relationships primarily with an emphasis of Asian Male and White Female relationships. Our scope draws from personal experiences and thoughts Laura and I utilize to improve AMWF Relationships.
Countering arguments with aggression only perpetuates conflict and I will step in and moderate the comments if they become personal attacks on another reader.
Much appreciated,
– Brian
“Before this gets carried out of hand, I want to make it clear that everyone is entitled to their own opinions”
—->Thanks, Ithink we are all adults here, I hope….
“Cheung3fung may have had some bad experiences in the past that has shaped his present day viewpoint. He is entitled to his own opinion, and he alone will face his own consequences for his choices”
—–>That’s the spirit, a honest man that is not afraid to hold back:-)
“Countering arguments with aggression only perpetuates conflict and I will step in and moderate the comments if they become personal attacks on another reader.”
—–>My most sincere apologies if I did this…..
I meant not afraid to not hold back, or doesn’t hold back.
I was pressed for time during lunch break
I learned something new today..I was talking with an older white woman on the subway. We got to chatting
and the subject of relationships came up. She basically told me that most White women usually don’t end up marrying decent guys. Their husbands are half decent at best. I proceeded to ask her if she had ever dated a decent guy, she said no. She told me that most young white women end up dating one player after another until they get to a certain desperation point where they hope that their spouse would be at least half decent and hopefully not carry too much baggage(bad rep).
I thinking to myself, WOW…..
i dont think i have read more sad and pathetic comments and replies as i have on this article.
why is race such a big deal? i know that this is an asian man/white women magazine…that’s why i was mildly intrigued that i stumbled onto this.
i have dated white and asian women all my life. i have never considered race to be an issue with whom i dated. i date the person; not the race. to be with a woman strictly because she is white? well, doesnt that just sound odd and pathetic?
what is the obsession of some asian men to be with a white woman? and why do i consistently read how insecure asian men are when it comes to white women? that a ‘white man’ can come along and steal her away. if ‘he’ does that to her, good! she wouldnt have been with you much longer anyway. and! you save some money by not having to take her out to the nicer restaurants.
do i have a girl friend? yes. do i care about her ethnicity? no. is she asian? no is she white? yes. am i physically attracted to her? absolutely! am i intellectually and emotionally attracted to her? heck yeah, and its a big yeah!!! is she physically attracted to me? her body language doesnt lie. does she love my personality and intellect? oh yes, very much so.
now, why cant relationships be that simple? why play all these games when the only productive thing about them is that they create unnecessary psychological stress and insecurity.
in ‘real’ relationships. there is no games to play. there is just one person caring for the other. the only effort of each person should be to unselfishly love one another.
this whole ‘asian men/white women’ magazine/obsession is appearing more and more to me as a fetish rather than a foundation for a real relationship.
Hey Brandon,
Thanks for commenting on this article! Personally I find it unfair to assess AMWF Love as a “Lifestyle Magazine” when its true purpose is to bring forward the emotional, social, and cultural issues of relationships that have a strong emphasis on Asian Male & White Female relationships.
While there are many other sources that suggest status and objectification of women, Laura and I try to bring real life issues that are either misunderstood or never addressed. The reason why we continue writing is so we can help bridge the gap between Asian Males and White Females in a constructive manner.
Freedom of speech is alive and well in our Western Nations providing that it isn’t hateful or condemning towards another individual or group. Behind the usernames of our comments lies a real person full of unique experiences and wisdom. When you express something openly, you also have to face the criticism and opinions of others. Many of our readers have been courageous to step forward and speak their mind, and never do get acknowledged for their efforts. Unfortunately that is the nature of our society, focusing on what we believe to be incorrect and not intention or purpose.
I truly believe we must give back to society, and I have been blessed with communicative skills. Therefore I feel it is my responsibility to help promote the AMWF relationship as well as any other form of interracial dating. I hope that AMWF Love gets recognized for its contribution to real life issues that interracial couples have to face. Laura and I represent the White Female and Asian Male respectively, so our scope has a strong emphasis on the AMWF relationship. Many of our articles can be applied to couples of varying ethinic origins, but it is beyond our scope and unfair to discuss issues we are unfamiliar of.
That is what AMWF Love stands for, and whether you choose to use AMWF Love as a knowledge resource is completely up to you.
– Brian
Brian,
thank you for the polite and respectful response. it does explain a lot on what you do and why you do it. it socially benefits society open and broaden perspectives on other ethnicities.
back onto the topic of asian male/white women relationships. i have asian guy friends. every one of them would love to go out with a white girl.but! here lies the problem. my asian friends are short, physically average to unattractive and socially awkward.
the ‘white’ women they desire is far from realistic. every one of them want a beautiful model white girl. thus, from my observation and experience (with my asian friends), they do objectify women to a large degree.
when i am with my girlfriend, who happens to be white, i am not with her because she is white. i am with her because she is incredibly compatible with me. now, dont get me wrong. i am physically attracted to her but i am also, and more so, attracted to who she is on the inside. her quick minded comments, life outlook, values and intellect are absolutely compatible with mine.
and in return, she is physically attracted to me. we have both asked and told each other this. she would have never gone out with me on personality alone. there has to be ‘chemistry’. her and i both feel it when we are together. it’s literally electrical. we physically excite each other. BUT! she also loves my wit, humor and intelligence. she is way too smart for silly pick up lines or a superficial flash of class/cash.
we are together because we compliment one another. from day one, we have never tried to impress each other on how great we think each of us is. on the contrary, we were both very cautious. why? and this is by no way meant to sound conceited or arrogant. but we both have a lot to offer and we do not give ourselves out very freely unless we feel that the other person is genuine, worthy of what we have and can truly appreciate it. i know. it sounds incredibly vain, shallow and narcissistic. but that is the truth and i am being honest and opening myself to possible flaming.
Well Brandon,
You are a very lucky man to have an amazing woman like her. Not all of us end up as fortunate, and some end up settling for a lot less than what they expected. Make sure you cherish the moments with her and don’t let a wonderful woman like her slip away. 🙂
– Brian
” you save some money by not having to take her out to the nicer restaurants.’
—-> Very good observation, and very true 🙂
“her body language doesnt lie”
—->Hopefully, for your sake…
“now, why cant relationships be that simple?”
—–>Not every guy is as lucky or blessed as you are.
“in ‘real’ relationships. there is no games to play”
—–>I agree whole-heartedly
hi cheung!
thank you for your reply.
being frustrated with dating is more than understandable. it can be an arduous and daunting thing to put your feelings out for another person to respond to. it is easy, in fact easier, to become jaded and bitter.
but…
my opinion, and it is an opinion only, is to date the person. when you start breaking down a person into a list of what you want, that list will never be met except with disappointment. instead, i have always wanted to be with the person. the whole person. everything she comes with as a package. the good and the bad.
i may have said it before. i am not a playboy. i am not a player. and i have never considered myself a pick up artist. i do not need to have my ego boosted by having pictures taken with girls. in fact, my girlfriend and i are the exact opposite: we dont like our pictures taken (which is ironic since i was a model and she currently is one). we like our privacy. we like being unnoticed. but it is extremely hard being that we stick out like sore thumbs. believe me. being unnoticed and your personal privacy is incredibly valuable.
and thank you for saying that i am lucky and blessed to be with her. i truly feel that i am. and! my girlfriend also feels the same way about me. she feels that she is the luckiest girl in the world. thus, a relationship is mutual. we deeply care for one another. she demands to see me as much as i demand to see her.
thus, onto my next point. her body language does not lie about her attraction to me. her touch, the way she gazes into my eyes, the way she strokes my face with her hands, the way she kisses me and asks me for another. well, let’s just say that i have dated a few women and nothing comes close to my girlfriends level of electricity.
yes, she is very attractive. very very attractive. but i am even more fortunate that i met someone with such an amazing personality. she is the complete package. so, how about a reason why she is attracted to me? i probably already mentioned that she is physically attracted to me, my personality, wit and intelligence. great and all. but a defining feature was that i did not pander to any of her crazy requests that other guys have bent over backwards for her. what do they call that nowadays? ah, respect. she respects me. and i respect her. oh, and she also loves me and i love her in return.
she bends over backwards to make time for me in her incredibly busy life. i have everything material in life that i want. likewise for her. we dont need anything this world can offer. dont get me wrong. we both like nice material things but we have never needed nor wanted anything material from each other.
i have a every public profession and she has a very public image. we want and need our privacy. i do not parade around with her on my arm like a proud peacock showing her off like a prize. we go out of our way to think of places to go where we will not be recognized.
why am i writing all of this? to boast? to say that i am better than everyone here? absolutely not.
mine is just a different perspective. i dont have ‘game’. i dont have ‘ill skills’.
i consider myself a regular guy. not an ‘asian’ guy. not a ‘lucky’ guy.
i am honest, straightforward and believe in myself fully. and the woman i am with is the same. we are equals. one is not better than the other. her and i both stand on a pedestal.
i have never felt the need to dress to impress, be socially and politically correct or try and be someone i am not. being true to yourself can be tough. it carries the risk that you may not be liked. it may alienate and anger people around you. and this is a very very hard hurdle to jump especially for asian men to come to terms with. this almost goes against traditional asian upbringing.
asian men: forget about trying to date ‘white women’. how about working on your own insecurities, inferiority complexes, low self esteem and poor self image before even trying to date a women.
Hi guys, just want to say something
– Gaming: We should replace the word with “skills”. I think that we should not game on girl, but certain skills are obviously required. For example, able to read a bit the body language, not pushing the girl too much, try to pay attention and acknowledge with what she has said, have good communication skills, well you name it. Personally I think these skills are important in the attraction build up stage, however, when it comes to long term relationship, it’s those fundamental connection which really matters…
– Interracial dating: It’s good that you date someone regardless of their races but their character. However, there are really some adjustment has to be taken when it comes to interracial relationship, so Brian please keep up the good work 🙂
– Finally, the topic is about “Why Aren’t there more AMWF relationships, in particular Asia, I suggest we should focus on the original topic and not deviate too much to keep the quality of this blog”
(just my two cents, no offense, and nothing personal 🙂
“For example, able to read a bit the body language, not pushing the girl too much, try to pay attention and acknowledge with what she has said, have good communication skills, well you name it”
—->If you are mentioning basic things such as hygiene, not being a slob, being self sufficient, basic table manners, then I agree with you. As for body language and not pushing her too much, no two women are the same. Different women express themselves differently, it’s not as simple as when she cries(sad), when she laughs(happy). Some women prefer aggressive men. Women are also very good pretenders(no, not sex), in the way they present themselves sometimes.
“- Finally, the topic is about “Why Aren’t there more AMWF relationships, in particular Asia”
—->Reason about Asia is population demographics
“- I suggest we should focus on the original topic and not deviate too much to keep the quality of this blog”
—->Fair enough…
I would just like to say that I’m a WF, and I like nothing but Asian guys (call it a fetish or whatever, everyone has their preference..and I’m not older, I’m turning 20 soon lol). I’m also currently dating a wonderful Chinese guy, and I couldn’t be happier. I’m honestly not into the whole dating thing (bad past experience, only had 1 boyfriend before this) but I gotta say I’m defffffffffffff happy I made an exception for him. 🙂
This is what I think…
Canadian white girl are more interested in Asian guys than American white girl. American white girl who are into asian guys that live in not so much asian do really want to have a relationship with an Asian guy while those who says the same but stay in the coast, have a tendency to do so just to get attention.
I live in LA and I notice that the AMWF couples, the WF are not from LA… I have dated one South Cal WF just for a short term thru friend introduction as a temp lover while she wait for the guy that she likes to get out of the prison. 🙂 I have also hangout with a blond who say she like AM and WM but end up return to her ex. Other than that, I do find it easy to talk to WF the first time, but they don’t care to want to know me after that, as compare to those WF girl who already have AM bf, will have the courtesy to chat back.
okay,
i feel that i should chime in here because i have ‘some’ experience with this topic.
the topic of this discussion topic is that asian men desire to be with white women. now, if the posters here are even remotely like my asian guy friends, what the guy posters here are seeking are very pretty, if not beautiful, white women to be with.
i was talking to my girlfriend about this and asked her some interesting questions and got some interesting answers.
please note that i am not bragging. i am not boasting. i am trying to give insight in relationships, especially when guys want to be with a beautiful woman.
the first thing she said is that a guy should not try to play out of his league. if the guy is short and/or unattractive, the chances are slim to none that a beautiful woman is going to even be interested.
the only thing that would interest a beautiful woman to an unattractive guy is money. her words, not mine. a guy with more than adequate funds will be with a beautiful woman for a few years at most.
this is the hard sad truth of humans: beautiful women prefer beautiful men. there are going to be isolated cases where average to below average looking guys will be with a beautiful woman because she really likes him. but the guy has a better chance of winning the lottery than being with a hot girl that likes him for who he is.
so my advice as a guy to another guy who wants to be in a relationship with a beautiful woman is either be very good looking (and still have a killer personality) or work really hard and be financially successful so that good looking woman will be attracted to you.
‘pick up artists’ saying that all you need is confidence and game, is well, wrong. confidence without substance will get your foot in the door and may seal the deal occasionally. but it will not, in most cases, create an honest foundation for a true long lasting trusting relationship.
peace.
“but the guy has a better chance of winning the lottery than being with a hot girl that likes him for who he is.”
—>No, winning the lottery is ALOT harder(I’m still trying 🙂 ). It depends on what the particular guy’s definition of hot is…Suppose you think Cindy is hot, but your friend only sees her as decent. Why don’t you mention chemistry? Any relationship can work(be long lasting) as long as there is chemistry. Chemistry can exist between anyone and does not discriminate whether a person is good looking or not. The hard part is finding
that special someone who you just click with. if you can get a super hot girl who basically has ice running through her veins vs a moderately attractive woman but who looks out for you emotionally and financially, which one would you choose? Remember, nothing comes for free, like when upgrading your computer or car, you want more RAM or cache, you pay more, you try to cut cost with virtual memory, you sacrifice speed.
Same goes for a car when you want more horsepower, car will chug more gas.
“so my advice as a guy to another guy who wants to be in a relationship with a beautiful woman is either be very good looking (and still have a killer personality) or work really hard and be financially successful so that good looking woman will be attracted to you.”
—->In this case she is only attracted to your money or lifestyle, not necessarily you, my rich friend tells me this all the time. Try not paying her bills for a week or two, and see what happens, or not picking up the tab at a five star restaurant…
hi cheung,
my post is from experience not idealism. the contents were not meant to be holier than thou. what i wrote is directly from my girlfriends response to my questions. it is great to be optimistic or idealistic but rarely are these realistic.
as for winning the lottery. it really isnt that hard. my dad won the lottery (not a bad jackpot i would say) and one of my friends friend won a huge one. so i directly know one person who won and another indirectly.
i do have a couple of my asian guy friends dating average white women. and please let me say this: there is nothing wrong with being average.
with what society, let’s say western culture, considers ‘attractive’, there are pretty well defined parameters and characteristics to what attractive attributes are. i deal with aesthetics, proportion, appearance and ‘beauty’ on a daily basis. it is a part of my profession.
and cheung, youre right about chemistry. a couple needs chemistry. and chemistry is a very complex multifactorial formula that will never be able to be defined because each human individual is so complex and unique.
i know beautiful women with a dead personality. and i know homely looking women with an amazing personality. but why present the extremes when most people fall somewhere in the middle of these. therefore, i will say it again that there is nothing wrong with average.
i will say it again. yes. a beautiful woman with a wealthy average to below average guy will be with him, almost always, for his money and status. where did i try and hide that truth? in fact, this isnt even coming from me. it is the honest truth from my girlfriend. and yes, she is beautiful. pretty much every good looking woman have used their appearance to get things from men whether it be free drinks, clothes, jewelry etc. if the man is stupid enough to fall for it then that’s his own fault, isnt it?
there is nothing wrong with wanting the ideal woman. who wouldnt want that? the problem lies in that such a woman doesnt exist. everybody has flaws. everybody has short comings.
some people are physically unattractive and will have a much harder time attracting an attractive person.
some are socially abrasive and will have a hard time getting along with others regardless of appearance.
and some are so wound up that they focus on the minutia of the individual rather than see them as a person.
from the posts i have read here, the overwhelming majority of the comments are filled with inexperience and idealism that is very far from reality. no wonder the guys here are frustrated and disillusioned about dating let alone dating white women.
i have also noticed that the asian men here are using their asian standards to evaluate a white woman. well, this is a guaranteed system for failure. why? because you are wanting to be with someone with nearly polar opposite values than you.
cheung, you are more than free to refute any of my experience and advice. what i am writing truly is gold. not just for dating ‘white women’ but dating and being in a real relationship with women. i am no slouch in meeting women and neither is my girlfriend in meeting men. either one of us can almost be with whomever we choose to be with. her and i dont need to pursue to be in a relationship. we are pursued by others. i am not writing this to brag or boast. i am trying to help with insight on how highly desirable people act and think. and no, i am not ugly on the inside. i still have my childhood friends. they would step in front of a bus for me and i would do the same for them. likewise for her.
one just needs to stop thinking and just go ahead and ‘do’. stop thinking if she is going to like me or not. if i am good looking enough for her. i am am tall enough for her. etc.
stop focusing on one or two bad experiences with girls.
stop over thinking the situation. from what i read here, most of the guys think themselves out of meeting someone or have already imagined being married with three kids to a girl they are riding the bus with but is instantly shattered and disillusioned when she does something that was not part of his day dream. that is crazy…but read the posts here. a lot of them have this characteristic.
stop being so insecure and just start talking to her. what about? anything. social skills are most of the time a learned behavior. the more you do it, the better you become at it. like with anything, it comes easier to others.
Chemistry and finding someone who you click with is most important. So when your looking for someone think about what you really need, what really makes you happy, and not what you think you need. Nothing comes for free in life and you will need to work for it, but make sure your working toward something you really will be happy with. I know many guys feel that money is really important to women, and it is only in the sense that if a man has money it usually means he is hard working. A hard working man means he will work hard for his women and his family…. but that’s not always true…… Many women do see all the fancy things money can buy and think that its what they want…. but after time they find out how alone they are when their hubby is gone all the time working (etc..)… Moral of the story, go after what makes you truly and simply happy.. and the two of you will always be that way.
-Laura
“Chemistry and finding someone who you click with is most important”
—–> Blessed is he who marries you…..You are wonderful… 🙂
from my personal experience, i think white girls are less interested in asian men because white girls rarely show any interest. they rarely make eye contact and smile at me. if our eyes meet, they alway avert their eyes too quick to hold a gaze. i live and grew up in toronto and that’s the most frustrating thing for me. i see pretty girls everywhere but they rarely give me the hint (ie. smile, eye contact). in fact, i get more smiles and stares from gay men than girls! and i’m completely straight. if a girl showed interest in me i would not hesitate to approach her. overtime these experiences confirm the belief that white girls are just not interested and it gets internalized. i’m still hopeful that i’ll meet a nice girl one day but sometime it’s quite frustrating and it’s difficult to put up a good face.
Hi John,
i am taking more and more interest in this thread and topic because i never knew the extent that some asian men had with these frustrations regarding women, let alone white women.
reading the posts by guys here and doing a google on the subject…i would have never known that some asian men have a distinct desire to be with a white woman. this is a foreign thought for me as i like to be with women based on who they are rather than what they are, ethnicity, in this topic of discussion.
i dont know you, i dont know your education, your professional status, your values, your height, appearance or social skills. what i can give is some insight on a guy who has dated asian and white women, though ethnicity never was an issue for me , it will be a discriminatory factor in this discussion.
okay,
my experience with women is the exact opposite of yours. very few asian women ever give me attention. i rarely get a look, smile or sign of interest. when i go to chinatown or an area where there is a very high concentration of asians, i rarely ever get looks from asian women.
i will give you an example of the difference of my experience with the difference in flirting from asian and white women: normal every day driving in traffic. i have yet to have an asian girl obviously and overtly flirt with me whether one or more of them are in the car. not once has this happened. and i am sure i am older than you.
but, even to this day, white girls/women will overtly engage me in very aggressive flirtatious behavior. they have rolled down their windows and whistled at me, winked, blown kisses and other a little more lewd displays. btw: yes, it does anger my girlfriend quite a bit at times. but, i also get very annoyed at times too when guys give my girlfriend a little more than appropriate attention.
the reason this happens? i am sure that there are probably a lot of reasons but to narrow it down, i will say that i exude a natural confidence that white women are attracted to more so than asian women are. i personally think that asian women are not attracted to an outward display of confidence and charisma. these type of men, to them, are arrogant, conceited and will leave them when someone better comes along. does this sound familiar? this is the same belief held by the asian guys i know.
my asian guy friends are vocally disgusted (but probably secretly delighted) at the very flirtatious behavior from the women they witness when they are around me. how normal is it for (white) females to flirt with me? my friends beg me to go introduce them to some girls over wherever. i roll my eyes and do it for them. and yes, you guessed it, the women are then fascinated with me not them. this happens 100% of the time that i have stopped doing it for them.
so, this goes back to posts i have written already. go back and read them. they are not meant to be filled with bravado and arrogance. the contents are meant to shed light in a realistic, not idealistic, way.
to sum external things up:
– play within your own league. if your appearance is average (or less), you are not going to be with a beautiful woman. my girlfriend doesnt look odd on my arm. we look like we belong together. we are both tall, modelesque with faces that are not hard on the eyes. i do not see a lot of only one really gorgeous person in a relationship. sorry if you lost out on the good looking gene lottery. life isnt fair.
– overt confidence – being truly confident in yourself, with just a slight hint of arrogance, is attractive to (especially beautiful) white women and repulsive to asian women
– money – good looking white women are attracted to money. just a fact of life. beautiful white women can have almost any man they want. so why not be with someone who can afford them a nice lifestyle. again, this notion is probably disgusting to most asian men. if you cant get over this fact, then you, as an asian man, are not going to be with a good looking white woman.
less tangible things that are attractive:
– chemistry – who knows why my girlfriend is so intensely physically attracted to me. she tells me that i am so hot that she can barely handle it. and i have no idea why i am so physically mesmerized with her. it just isnt how beautiful (and she is absolutely stunning) she is. what i will say is that when we are together…our natural scents drive each other crazy. she smells me and i her…well, that’s it. even when we were courting and getting to know one another (and it took a long’ish time because we are both cautious on who we are with), one could easily cut the sexual tension with a very dull knife.
– intellect – her and i are both drawn to each other’s sharp mind. she is very smart and quick witted. and i the same. we are both articulate our needs, thoughts and desires very clearly. i have dated women so stunning that guys off the street would shake my hand to congratulate me but little do they know is that the gorgeous woman was dumb as a post.
– life outlook – we share similar, if not the same, life outlook. we believe that life isnt fair for everyone. some will unfairly have more than others. but in this egalitarian feel good happy self celebratory everyone is special movement right now, everyone is led to believe that everything is obtainable. this simply isnt true.
– ‘like’ people are drawn to one another – it kind of goes back to external things but it also incorporates the more esoteric things listed in this section. point and counter point work well together but only up to a level before irreversible friction begins. this is the same for the saying opposites attract. it appears that one balances the other out…but a lot of the times, these differences that were attractive in the beginning become tiring and extremely annoying.
all for now…
my material is not meant to be warm and fuzzy that is filled with optimism. this, in my experience, is the truth. reality is rarely nice. but once you wake up and smell the coffee, so much more can be done!
OK, I have been following this thread and would like to throw in a view point from the other side. I am a white American female of European descent and I live in NYC, grew up in NJ. And it always astounds me to hear Asian men complain that non-Asian women do not like them! Why? Well, for starters, in my high school (which mostly consisted of a Latino population – I was one of only a handful of white kids, hence the skew towards Latinas here) the Latina girls absolutely adored Asian guys. (I did too, but was strictly not allowed to date at all during high school by my parents). These girls were very attractive and were not short of male attention, but felt Asian guys, aside from being handsome, also made great boyfriends. Getting an Asian guy for many was akin to the holy grail. However, there were no Asian guys in my high school. We’d only see them when we traveled to other schools for things like track meets and they were always just a few. There, these girls would get really shy. Now mind you, they were pretty used to assertive and aggressive Latino males who easily picked up on non-verbal flirting behavior. So when they tried the same, the Asian guys were either looking at their shoes & clinging to the wall, looking right through them or simply not reacting at all. Compound this with the common teenage angst and/or insecurity already present, these girls grew despondent. They all eventually assumed that Asian guys would never date or become interested in a non-Asian girl. Following through to university, (some of us went to the same college), many just gave up and stopped flirting with Asian guys because they learned it got them nowhere. These girls were the ones that had gotten used to getting an equivalent to the outer space ignorance treatment!
Now another girl in my high school, Marta, I think came across the missing piece of the puzzle, quite by accident. We were at a track camp for a week during spring break, and there was one Asian guy from another school she had a crush on. She kept on wistfully talking about him so much, afraid to approach him because he never reacted to her non-verbal flirting (albeit it was nervous, shy flirting on her behalf), that she would look at him from a distance and get silly about it. (He was pretty hot by the way and may have had a girlfriend already – but she never got so much as a half smile or look in return). Finally, on the last day, we were taking a break outside during lunch, he happened to be nearby stretching by himself. I got so sick of her going on about it, that I grabbed her camera, walked up to him and told him “My friend over there thinks you’re really hot and would like a picture of you so she can drool over you some more later. May I take a photo of you?” (LOL, I was pretty brave back then and my friend was ready to kill me! But at that point I was happy to have her quit going on about how she was never going to see him again, haha). My friend had turned bright red at this point. It took this guy a few seconds for it to sink in, but then he gave out the biggest, biggest smile and said sure and posed for a couple of shots. After that, there was a shy flirting game going on for the rest of the day between them (i.e. the final day). And from what I could tell a lot of subtle pointing at my friend’s direction and bragging on his behalf ( I say so due to the high fives he was getting). They never hooked up, but I think she understood she had to go beyond flirting and be assertive herself. Some time later, she had gone to a cousin’s party in NYC where she met a Filipino guy. She started talking to him first, was a bit assertive. Lo and behold they started dating and she duly drove us insane with talking about him and showing us his picture, telling us how hot he was, until the end of the school year.
In university, my girl friends and I (both Asian and non-Asian) hung out with a plethora of groups, even managing to ‘infiltrate’ some of the close knit Asian groups. Many of my non-Asian friends flirted shamelessly with the Asian guys (I was a bit shy & reserved back then). I noticed the guys who were at school from abroad, like Hong Kong, seemed flattered but didn’t do anything with their flirting (or the Asian girls’ flirting for that matter). American born Asian guys just didn’t seem to believe it. The only guys who went for it, so to speak, were the Vietnamese guys (both American and ‘FOB’). They were actually pretty aggressive, relatively speaking, and dated a lot.
Otherwise we girls had quiet crushes here and there, but ended up dating mostly white guys because the majority of Asian guys acted very closed off. Little did I know then that the issue was I had to be waaaay more obvious than the more standard or relatively subtle flirting ways I had learned growing up. (A lesson learned well, otherwise I would not be dating my current boyfriend. He had assumed I’d never go for him and was just being nice).
Also, in my circle of friends the AMWF pairing is the most common interracial pairing. There are five such married couples in my close circle of friends alone ( husbands are Chinese, Taiwanese, or Vietnamese; wives are American of an Anglo or Scandinavian background or British; they got together because either the females were assertive, the guy just went for it or things developed out of a long term friendship). It’s never been anything to think twice about, i.e. as strange or unusual in any way. Though I have discovered along the way and through Laura and Brian’s blog there are elements of cultural miscommunication, for the lack of a better term, that seem to get in the way, cause feelings of discouragement and/or there is a lack of well understood or received approaches from both sides. Remove that and things suddenly move along swimmingly. (Disclaimer: That’s in my opinion, based on my experience, it may be different elsewhere).
My goodness, this is an amazing story from NYC_Girl. Thank you very much for sharing your comments!
Asians are definately interested in dating non-Asian women, but for the most part you could say there are some cultural challenges involved. When I look back at how my Asian male friends ended up in a relationship regardless of the ethinic background of the female, it was the fact that they were together for some time before they were actually dating. Usually it began hanging as a group often, and at one point they would confess their feelings for each other (in private). After 5+ years, about 90% of them are still together. Another thing I might add is if they have a psychotic control-freak mother, they will definately have subdued behaviour.
One of the most difficult things with pursuing AMWF Relationship is competing against the alternatives as you have described above for us. Asian Females usually have an upper hand because of their knowledge of our culture, and sadly most Asian Men do not wish to decline offers (because we tend to get very few using a passive strategy) and settle. This goes the same for the White Female who has many other options ranging from Caucasian to Hispanic or African origins. They tend to have a strong initial assertion that most Asian Men do not utilize in public. In a more one on one situation without public onlookers Asian Men may have a more assertive approach, however out in public, they are often trained to be well behaved.
To tell you the truth, there isn’t really much that distinguishes a friend from a girlfriend for Asian Men. Excluding the physical components, the behaviour is quite similar to a friend, but it really comes down to a commitment factor. It’s this willingness to spend time together, and simply just be around each other. That’s how we watched our parents. 🙂
– Brian
In response to Brandon and everyone else interested…
Thanks for your kind response….
“there is nothing wrong with wanting the ideal woman. who wouldnt want that? the problem lies in that such a woman doesnt exist. everybody has flaws. everybody has short comings.”
——>These Women are all in medical school. Problem is female doctors only marry male doctors. If you know any friends that went to medical school, ask them, there are women in medical school that make Victoria’s Secret models seem cut rate. Super hot, highly educated, spectacular personalities. Ever watch the movie Days of Thunder? Nicole Kidman’s character exists in real life, unfortunately they don’t sleep with race car drivers.
—–>I wll however warn guys who attempt to date women in law school. Yes these women are also very attractive, highly educated, but they are mean, and will not hesitate to skin you alive.
Hi cheung,
i can tell that you are a very kind, considerate and sensitive person. it feels like to me that you have experienced a lot of disappointment and have formed a lot of protective mechanisms and beliefs to shield yourself from the harsh reality of the world. not trying to be your psychologist
whatever medical school these smart hot women attended…i sure missed out on that school. i have yet to meet and/or see a smoking hot female doctor. i know and met cute, even good looking female doctors. but putting victoria models to shame? not yet for me. and i know hundreds of doctors.
i speak, again, from experience that female doctors do not only date or marry male doctors. doctors are really just normal people, imo, who went through a little more school than normal. believe me, being a doctor is no big deal.
regarding female lawyers/attending law school, i have several female lawyer friends. they are some of the nicest, most considerate people i have ever encountered. one even became a judge! the biggest a-hole lawyer i know is my personal lawyer who keeps me out of trouble. he is blunt and down right rude to me. i love him though! and again, i dont know which law school these super hot female law students attend but it sure wasnt the one my female lawyer friends attended.
cheung,
life isnt as cruel as you make it out to be. the world is filled with kind and loving people. but be careful with who you open up to because there are a lot of predators that are more than happy to take(and more) whatever you offer.
life is a journey and a destination. you dont want to walk the road forever but at the same time, you can get bored once you reach the destination too quickly.
In response to Brian…
“I can tell that you are a very kind, considerate and sensitive person. it feels like to me that you have experienced a lot of disappointment and have formed a lot of protective mechanisms and beliefs to shield yourself from the harsh reality of the world. not trying to be your psychologist ”
—->I tend to be bit of a pessimistic person, it keeps me sane…. 🙂
I actually cherish every disappointing experience I’ve ever had, I believe it will make me a better person
in the long run.
life isnt as cruel as you make it out to be. the world is filled with kind and loving people. but be careful with who you open up to because there are a lot of predators that are more than happy to take(and more) whatever you offer.
—->Yes, very good point….but life can at times be trying, test my inner most patience. I always tell myself that these brick walls are just tests that life throws at me, and whatever doesn’t kill me will make me that much stronger…. It can also seem like I’m fighting a higher power who has me destined for failure, or maybe he/she is just trying to mold me into a better person, I guess only time will tell…
“i know and met cute, even good looking female doctors. but putting victoria models to shame? not yet for me. and i know hundreds of doctors.”
—–>What is your concept of an educated person? Trust me, you won’t find any Victoria models that fit the bill. Did you ever meet a hot woman who could take care of you the way your mom did or still does, except that she’s not your mom? Remember back when you were a little kid and got sick, how your mom used to take care of you? Now imagine meeting a woman of that caliber as an adult…, but she’s not your mom… 🙂 She is also very educated and can complement you in ways you could never imagine in the long run. I met such a person, she explained to me from the very beginning that I was just going to fill a temporary void for her. She made me think very seriously about marriage(I was only 19 at the time). When it came time for her to get serious, she dropped me, I’m not mad because I knew what was going to happen all along. I learned
so much from her that I’m still thanking her.
“regarding female lawyers/attending law school, i have several female lawyer friends. they are some of the nicest, most considerate people i have ever encountered”
——>Had some friends who went to law school and told me how mean the pretty girls were..Maybe just the heat of the competition, I guess…
Brandon, not Brian
Sorry…
“whatever medical school these smart hot women attended…i sure missed out on that school. i have yet to meet and/or see a smoking hot female doctor”
—->O.K. I now understand where we see things differently, when you mean hot, you were strictly talking about aesthetics. I think of a hot girl as having a combination of qualities, not just looks because looks can and will fade. I have been told by numerous women that relationships based on looks almost always fail.
“doctors are really just normal people, imo, who went through a little more school than normal. believe me, being a doctor is no big deal.”
—->Just asked my ex about this remark. Her reply was….”When you are going to be constantly making decisions about the physical well being of another human being, IT IS A VERY BIG DEAL!!! It is very hard for doctors to be normal people, they experience things most normal human beings, even the most courageous won’t dare think of. Then you have doctors who deal with patients with terminal illness such as cancer. Imagine that your job is to cure a person, but you know you are destined to fail”
Hi Brian,
pertaining to my personal observations and experience, i don’t know if i agree with this statement
” there isn’t really much that distinguishes a friend from a girlfriend for Asian Men.”
my female friends are strictly known as female acquaintances. i do not go out to lunch with them. i do not meet up with them for coffee. no way, no how would my girl friend even for a split second tolerate me being alone with another woman whatever her ethnicity. this goes the same for me.
she knows how women think and i know what guys are thinking. thus, there will always be a huge difference between my female ‘friends’ and my girl friend.
her and i are both very jealous and protective of one another. we look out for one another. she gives the evilest looks to women who check me a little too much and i give the glare to guys who ogle my girl friend inappropriately. simple as that. she actually, is much more attentive than i. a lot of the times, i don’t even know a girl is hitting on me. she will just step in between and will sometimes say something. but after, she will always let me know what was up and what she didn’t like about that situation.
the above is my experience with every girl friend i have dated regardless of ethnicity.
i think an important feature of any relationship is what my girl friend and i were talking about this morning: we ‘choose’ to be together. we are not together because we settled for each other. i said that both her and i could be with almost anyone we choose to be with and we choose to be with each other.
It’s a bit of an abstract way of looking at it – kind of like taking a negative image to shape the positive image. You also forgot to include the next few lines that would describe the physical components, so it is slightly taken out of context.
When I grew up as a child, my parents were not much into physical signs of affection. Dad would work hard to bring in the money, and mom would manage the bills, and domestic issues. Instinctively I knew they were together by the sheer amount of time they spend around each other. It seemed normal. So is a girlfriend (or wife) just someone you spend time with? Or is it something more? This may seem like an awkward concept for us with heavy Western influences, but with a more traditional Eastern mindset, you could say it’s a grey area.
When you realy try to breakdown a relationship to it’s components, there are physical, emotional, and spiritual needs that are mutually beneficial while being together. Now this applies to both friendships and monogamus relationships. The more you looked into it, the lines started to become even more blurred. Your best childhood friends growing become second to your partner. Years pass and you being to lose that belonging, and somehow spiral into an identity crisis.
That being said, if you are in a relationship because there is attraction, chemistry, and a willingness to mutually support each other regardless of the situation, then you can completely disregard the above. Many of us just end up settling for someone tolerable after the accumulation of bad experiences. It really does get blurred. You could say getting into a relationship without ever (that means you can find out later) realizing why you love each other makes it really hard to distinguish a friend from a girlfriend or wife.
– Brian
Hi cheung,
“Did you ever meet a hot woman who could take care of you the way your mom did or still does, except that she’s not your mom?”
as for being mothered, i have a mom for that and if and when she leaves this earth, i am already a responsible adult that can take care of myself.
in regards to be ‘taken’ care of when i am sick. yes, she does that. they make sure that i am comfortable and not in any discomfort. i will not have my girl friend mother me. it would change the dynamics of our relationship.
cheung, yes, i know a lot of doctors who take their profession very seriously and yes, tough decisions are made but that is part of what a doctor does. i know doctors who touts themselves as ‘god like’, making life and death choices but again, it is a part of what they do. it is a part of their residency training to bare and bring bad news as well as good news. any doctor that touts how amazing they are or how important they are really just showing how insecure they are. direct experience? perhaps.
as for education and an educated person. i find these to be two very different things. to qualify myself on this statement, i will say that i went all the way with school. all the way. the majority of people i know and are friends with have also gone all the way. birds of a feather flock together.
thus, some of the most annoying, socially awkward, argumentative people i know are the ones that have received the most education.
i also know very educated people: in university (asians love to distinguish between ‘college’ and ‘university’) and in life. these people are the ones who are balanced and understanding. my firends who fit into this category are amazing to be with and will be with you through thick or thin.
asians place a huge emphasis on education. heck, i am one of them that went all the way. but one will sadly find that going to a lot of school does not guarantee success let alone happiness. education is way over emphasized in asian culture as a path to success and happiness.
In response to Brandon
Looks like we are slowly but surely going way off topic….
Maybe we’ll run into each other at Starbucks one day and debate about life 🙂
“as for being mothered, i have a mom for that and if and when she leaves this earth, i am already a responsible adult that can take care of myself.”
—->Bro, of course you are, I am referring to those times in adulthood when it would be comforting to have a second opinion on matters, we as guys can sometimes feel alone and utterly confused.
” i will not have my girl friend mother me. it would change the dynamics of our relationship. ”
—->I was alluding to how hot a woman with this quality would be, in my opinion
hi cheung,
“I was alluding to how hot a woman with this quality would be, in my opinion”
i was thinking about this and i think it would be weird for my girlfriend to mother me the way my mom does.
for example: my girlfriend and i were out for dinner last night. we sit next to each other always. very close. i usually have my hand on her lap or hers on mine. she likes to rest her head on my shoulder and will randomly stroke my face with her hands. yes, we have always been very affectionate.
my mom does not sit that close to me, she doesnt rest her hand on my lap etc. my mom is very maternal to me. and even more so because i am the only boy of the family.
so, i would not want my girlfriend to mother me because it would be creepy to me. it would be confusing. that, of course, is just me.
but this is the beauty of an opinion. it is whatever floats your boat!
Wow. The sheer number of comments caught my eye. Cannot believe I actually read all of that. I’m kind of dazed…
Well, all I have to say about the original topic…why there aren’t more AMWF relationships… is…y’all are hard to pin down! And always hanging out only with other Asians – it can be hard for a white girl to “infiltrate” a group like that. (Not me, because I don’t give a damn and I’m not shy, but I notice that I’m usually the only white girl in the room at university and I know some girls would be unnerved by that.) So make a move! Don’t assume a girl is “just being nice.” Had to practically chase my AM boyfriend down and flirt with him shamelessly to catch him. Totally worth the danger of “making a fool of myself” or whatever, rejection, you know.
Also, don’t assume that you’re too short for a girl, too ugly, too skinny, too shy, you’re self conscious of your glasses, a freckle on your cheek, the way your hair has a cowlick, sticks up and looks funny, whatever. As was already mentioned, chemistry is key, and you have no idea what will turn a girl on about you – an “imperfection” of yours could become her favorite physical feature; you never know!
Brian,
I don’t know about any other white people out there…but my parents didn’t really act any differently than your parents, they were just two friends who ran a household together and had matching rings on their left hands. Once in a blue moon one would kiss the other on the cheek, but that was the extent of their physical relationship as it appeared to us kids. I think a lot of people grew up with parents like this; it’s probably not exclusive to (or even more common with) Asian parents.
Last thing: Whoever it was who was essentially like “What?! White people don’t shoot you down on the train in Hong Kong? UR STOOPID, they do in NYC! Come try it over here!! Whites are meaner than Asians, I swear!!”
…well a) of course it’s different in HK than NYC, and b) I’m from Jersey and even I know that (duhh) you just DO NOT talk to random people in the city, even handsome young men. It’s just not done. You never know who’s a psycho. (Somebody mentioned black and latino men having better luck – HA! I’m pretty sure there was a study done recently about how white people are, as a rule, more fearful of strange black men than of strange Asian men, so whether they have better “game” or “technique” or whatever you want to call it…if Asian men were more aggressive, they could definitely pull it off without being scary to white women. Whew. End rant.)
I’ve noticed that the closer you get to the city, the nastier people tend to be to random strangers, as a knee jerk response. Try coming over to NJ/PA, or going down to DE. Us farmgirls are much more amenable to friendly advances. Maybe we’re a little less glamorous than cityfolk, but we don’t give a rat’s ass and neither should you. 🙂
.” Had to practically chase my AM boyfriend down and flirt with him shamelessly to catch him. Totally worth the danger of “making a fool of myself” or whatever, rejection, you know.”
—->Your boyfriend is a very lucky guy…I wish there were more girls like you…
“Last thing: Whoever it was who was essentially like “What?! White people don’t shoot you down on the train in Hong Kong? UR STOOPID, they do in NYC! Come try it over here!! Whites are meaner than Asians, I swear!!”
—–> O.K. sweetheart, you wouldn’t like it when someone talked to you like that, c’mon, be honest now…it’s perfectly o.k. to disagree, but you can be a bit more courteous, right, hon?
“so whether they have better “game” or “technique” or whatever you want to call it…if Asian men were more aggressive, they could definitely pull it off without being scary to white women. ”
—–>Majority of Asian men despise playing games with relationships, it’s really a good way to piss off our parents when we do that, which usually leads to a major ass whooping, followed by some very uncomfortable consequences… I sometimes think that women here in New York City are so disgusted with men that they don’t believe any decent guy exists, they just go out and try find the best lay, just my opinion
In response to Brandon
“i was thinking about this and i think it would be weird for my girlfriend to mother me the way my mom does.”
——>Bro, NO….I am not saying your girlfriend has to be your mother…..
I’m talking about motherly qualities, not being your mother.
For example…
-She can take care of you when your sick.
-She can cook your favorite foods
-She knows what you like or dislike and does what she can to make sure you’re happy
-She can help you out with your bills just in case…
(I’m not talking about abuse on your part)
-She looks out for you(like after a hard day at work, she won’t drop everything on you
like a ton of bricks).
-She knows when you are SPENDING TOO MUCH MONEY or WORKING TOO HARD to
pay your bills, and tries to slow down with you or even help you out a little
-etc etc, you see where I’m getting at, right?
Maybe it’s the difference in age, I see things the way I do because I’m in my 30’s, I also listen to my co-workers, grown men in their 50’s, 60’s 70’s and 80’s talk about long term relationships and about their experience with them.
As you spend more time with the same woman throughout the years(marriage and so forth), you start trying to look for ways to define love other than simply looks and sex. I know it sounds weird.
I’ll try to keep this PG…
-When couples are young sex occurs maybe 2 or 3 times a week maybe more.
-When the same couple is still together(10, 15, 20) years and have a couple of kids, it
becomes once a week
-Sex eventually becomes a once a month thing…
-Point is not many long term married couples are having much sex..
-You’ll be in awe if you know of a couple who after 30, 40 years of marriage(probably in
their 70’s) are still having sex, Hugh Heffner is an exception 🙂
-And a final thought…When was the last time your parents had sex, or even held hands.
I know this sounds kinda…..yucky, nasty, but you’ll see yourself pondering about this
someday, trust me… 🙂
hi cheung,
i can tell you think a lot. that there is a lot on your mind. you appear to be always analyzing some matter on some topic. there is absolutely nothing wrong with reading and knowing but there will come a time to ‘do’ if one wants to be successful in whatever you want to be successful in.
i am older than you. i went all the way with school. i have a very prestigious profession. and i have lived life to its fullest and continue to live it. i have done everything that i wanted to do: legal and perhaps not so legal. i am the stereotypical good asian son and the craziest baddest mother on the flip side.
so, to me, the desirable attributes you listed are great but not always realistic. you ‘may’ find a woman like that one day but why not enjoy the ride in the search for her. how will you ever know if the woman you are looking for doesnt have some of the things without getting to know her.
the synopsis of life opinions from a lot of, what i call, walking dead guys is incredibly depressing. my life has never been what you would list as ‘normal’. i was in a ten year relationship and i still had sex 5-6 times a week. the months leading us to breaking up, it was only then that sex tapered off to once a week. why did we split up? as with any break up. it’s complicated and always multifactorial.
my belief is not to be with someone for the sake of being with someone. i would rather be alone than be with someone to avoid being ‘alone’. i dont seek relationships. never have. relationships find me. i always choose to be in a relationship. that is how, i believe, every relationship should be like.
love, again to me, is not an emotion. it is an attribute. no different than kindness or patience. when i say that i am in love with my girlfriend. it means just that: i care for her well being, her safety, her comfort, her happiness, what saddens her, what brings her joy, her present, her future etc. and she feels the same for me. i know you would automatically question if she really does. does she truly? no, i am not 100% sure. but, no one ever will be. the same uncertainty about me would be the same for her. so, no one is 100% sure. take a risk. that is what life is about.
it seems like you have read a lot, asked a lot of excellent questions. i have read that you even been in a long term’ish relationship (but with the knowledge that it would not last? is this right?). i have also read that you have interacted with some girls in an attempt to get to know them. that is a great start but follow through and dont be discouraged if they are not what you are looking for or youre not the one they are looking for. there are over 300 million people in the united states and millions in the demographics you are seeking.
cheers!
In response to Brandon….
“the synopsis of life opinions from a lot of, what i call, walking dead guys is incredibly depressing. my life has never been what you would list as ‘normal’. i was in a ten year relationship and i still had sex 5-6 times a week. the months leading us to breaking up, it was only then that sex tapered off to once a week. why did we split up? as with any break up. it’s complicated and always multifactorial.”
—–>My apologies for my abscence…
—–>You will eventually become one of these walking dead guys(get old).
——>As for sex six times a week……
-Lets do some logic here
-I don’t exactly know how you do your mojo….
-The most I went was for three consecutive days (shooting twice each day)back in high
school and I was literally dry by the third day. I can’t be the only guy that needs to
recharge….this usually takes 2 to 3 days for most guys. There are only 7 days in a
week, right? Maybe I just don’t get it….
-You said this was a relationship that lasted 10 years…..Sex with one person for 10
years can be quite monotonous, you can try all the positions you want, Tantra, Kama
Sutra, but after 10 years you should have exhausted it all, but somehow you still went
at it with this same person 6 times a week….. WOW 🙂 I know it’s none of my
business, but I still have to ask, were you cheating???
——>You mentioned complicated and multifactorial……
-Here’s a big hint, if any woman is still with any man for 10 years, relationship wise, she
is probably looking for one thing(BLING BLING ——> HINT HINT)
I’m not trying to call you out, but you’re being a bit ridiculous, ya think?
Hi Cheung,
I don’t subscribe to email updates but decided to check on this thread as it is by far the most interesting one on this forum.
Yes, I have sex 5-6 times a week. Sex was never monotonous with someone for ten years. It was average from day one because she was never adventurous. Sex is still intimate and feels good. Why did I break up with her? It is complicated and would take too long to describe. But most break ups are. And no, I did not cheat on her. Ever. Not once.
As for the bling bling, she has received more than enough jewelry from me as well as other very expensive things. But these are just material. They are inconsequential to me. Make a lot, spend somewhat.
5-6 times a week for me is normal. I never thought of it being a freak of nature. It is just my libido. I guess I recharge quickly. I don’t masturbate. Me getting nookie has never been difficult. I turn it down on a regular basis (as does my girlfriend). I don’t like sex with strangers. Everyone is different.
Since we are talking sex, my girlfriend and I share the same sexual vibe. She likes what I like from day one. In fact, she is more aggressive than me at times. But I can outlast her sometimes too.
My girlfriend and I, after being together for years, still can’t keep our hands off one another. We also enjoy each others company immensely and have yet to tire of conversation because we just don’t talk about stuff we have done in the past, we actually have intellectual topics to discuss.
Totally procrastinating right now and somehow ended up here in a wandering bout of self pity. 😛 This idea of the AMWF relationship has been on my mind a bit recently… I’m surprised to find such a dedicated and thoughtful resource.
My take on the issue is that it’s all cultural. (Many) exceptions aside, by and large, Asian men often exhibit personality traits that are just not very attractive to American women.
The many positive stereotypes of loyalty, affability, sensitivity and compassion, strong work ethic, family value, etc I believe are all strongly influenced by Asian culture. This is a culture that is both steeped in tradition and fiercely competitive. This is a huge generalization, but Asian culture tends to encourage males to keep their head down, to work hard, and to understand on a fundamental level that “happiness” is equivalent to “success,” which invariably arises from education, wealth, and family.
While many cultures, including American culture, also emphasize similar values to a degree, I think the prevalence of emphasis on those particular values is not nearly as homogeneous here as it is in Asia. I also think American culture is less willing to sacrifice other values such as creativity, self exploration and expression, and social development as much as Asian culture is willing.
And so you have a hard-working Asian male who is well-educated with a good job and steady source of income, ready to dutifully and compassionately provide for a family but lacking in the way of social skills or a diverse understanding of the concept of recreation. All of which would fit perfectly in Asia, but gets quite lost in translation to American culture.
There, finding such a man is a great source of pride to a woman and her family and can be as much a measure of success as a career to the man. Here, women have a broader spectrum of priorities. For one, not as many American women are looking at every date as a potential life-long partner, which completely annihilates many of the Asian man’s greatest strengths. Rather than looking for a social construct that happens to take the form of a man, many American women are just looking for a man, someone for companionship, conversation, activities, diversion, intimacy. Unfortunately, these are some of the qualities most discouraged in Asian culture as mere frivolity. They are sometimes even seen as hindrances to achieving true Asian values.
Let’s face it: your typical Asian man has no idea how to shoot the shit, make a move, riff, strut, nail a punchline, or shake his booty. The end result is a man whose character appears stiff, wimpy, and generally unequipped for the cultural demands of the typical American dating scene. Throw on top of that the cold hard realities that Asians are a still a very small minority (even “exotic” is never mainstream) and that a certain amount of prejudice still abounds in sizable segments of the population and you face some very tough obstacles.
Of course, as I’ve said there are many exceptions, but my comments are not about why AMWF relationships don’t happen, they are about why they are uncommon. I think the further the woman’s values diverge from typical American culture or the closer the man’s values adhere to American culture, the more likely these relationships are able to happen. Aside from the much higher percentage of Asian populations in large cities, I think the lower cultural barriers are one of the main reasons AMWF relationships are much more common in large cities. Large cities tend to engender more open and cosmopolitan cultural world views and are also the home to many more late generation (2nd, 3rd, 4th+) Asian American males. Finally I think that with age, as dating becomes more difficult for women and settling down becomes more of a priority, the stability and safety of the Asian man tends to become more desirable (the ones who haven’t already paired off with Asian women at least).
Those are my thoughts on the matter. Granted, these are observations from an Asian male with absolutely zero first-hand romantic experience, so there’s a lot of intellectualizing going on here. Now if you’ll excuse me I need to stop procrastinating. If my Asian mother knew that I was wasting time with this she would smack me in the head.
Most non-white males want white females. This is because overall white females are on average better looking than asian or african girls. The problem is that with only 9% of the world population being white and 1/2 of those being males, there are not many white females to distribute to asian or black guys. This will be more and more difficult in the future as the white population of the world keeps diminishing (due to low birth rates and non white marrying white females). My advise to you all is try to get one as soon as possible. In the near future there will be only museums to see white females since they will become extinct in the next 2 or 300 years.
Unfortunately, I live in Quebec. A French-Canadian province where the only asians are adopted girls. When I was young, I saw asian men in a movie, and suddenly, white men were looking completely unattractive, compared to them. I don’t want to date white men, but I think I will never find an asian guy here..
Don’t lose hope you’ll find one, I’m sure. I could understand that there may be fewer Asian guys around in Quebec, especially in rural areas. Do you live in a rural area? It’s definitely true that you’re more likely to find Asian guys in bigger cities since there are more people. But don’t lose hope Audrey.
I’m an Asian-Canadian guy living in Toronto. I’m in my early 20s and was raised here in Toronto. Like you, I find Caucasian girls very attractive and I involuntarily seek/check them out over Asian girls. And lately I’ve had the chance to chat with a few French-Canadian girls. Because I’ve lived here in Toronto all my life, I find it quite refreshing to meet people from different parts of Canada. And I’m starting to really notice French-Canadian girls, they’re unique! And the ones I’ve encountered so far were quite cute and friendly :). Overtime I’ve grown weary of the typical Toronto girls and their cold, standoffish ways so one day I plan to move away from here to Montreal. So please don’t lose hope because of the lack of Asian guys in your current situation. There are plenty of guys like me who have grown up in Canadian culture hoping to one day meet a nice, genuine girl like you. It may suck to fly solo right now but things will work out :).
Audrey is a nice name btw
J
Canada is definately a diverse nation, but fortunately for you Audrey we are not too far from Quebec. Most Asians tend to live in urbanized areas in Canada such as Toronto (and greater area), Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver (and surrounding). Montreal may also be a possibility as well, though I’d imagine that they would be there for post-secondary reasons.
Asian men do like non-Asian females, but sometimes we have an invisible ceiling mentality and cannot even begin to fathom the fact that a non-Asian female is interested in us. It’s really interesting watching the behaviour suddenly change when an Asian Male hears that a White Female is interested. The fact is we do open up, but one of the most difficult things for Asian Males is that initial meeting or icebreaking phase. Don’t give up hope Audrey, there is someone out there for you!
– Brian
Reading this made me so happy..Thanks to both of you! It really gives hope..
Actually, I live in a very crowded town, but there are no Asians. I’ve been told that it’s maybe because we don’t really speak English. I think that if I didn’t go to private school, I wouldn’t have been able to learn it. I’m also learning Mandarin Chinese and Japanese right now..yay 😀
That’s why I’ve been thinking about moving to Montreal, where I guess there are more Asians, and English speakers.
..Thanks again, J and Brian